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Neverwinter Nights => Prestige Classes => Topic started by: Deathpoint on November 01, 2011, 02:38:15 AM

Title: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: Deathpoint on November 01, 2011, 02:38:15 AM
Can I add lich to a build that already has 3 classes?

Thanks.
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: xwarren on November 01, 2011, 03:36:39 AM
*xwarren checks if the search function is working on this forum*
*searches for 'lich' 'template' and 'class'*
*found Lich help? (http://prc.athasreborn.com/index.php?topic=224) thread*
Hmmm...
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: Calirion on November 08, 2011, 12:05:39 AM
True enough, XWarren, but one would have to read through a lot of posts to get to the answer to the question above, since the first part of the thread deals with a problem with making soul gems.  It would be easy to miss that it also offers an answer to this question.

Yes, you can add the lich template to a character that already has three classes providing the character meets the requirements (11 arcane or divine caster levels, evil alignment, craft wondrous item feat, no monstrous race).  You can't add the lich class.  The demilich that comes out of the lich class has an insane amount of damage reduction but, as XWarren points out in the linked thread, fewer caster levels.  The demilich that arises from the lich template has less damage reduction but stronger spellcasting (potential for full caster levels, quite a few free feats, numerous spell-like abilities).  For defense you would want the class.  For spellcasting you would want the template for sure.

Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: urthok on January 19, 2012, 03:59:54 PM
Either way the demilich is overpowered. I don't think it's fun to play with something like that without restrictions.
It'd be nice to play with a lich in a RP server whereyou would have to deal with the consequences of being undead.

About your question, as far as I know, templates (any of them) don't count as classes.
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: Calirion on January 19, 2012, 11:13:20 PM
Yeah, the one problem with the template system is that the demilich template doesn't requrire the experience or gold costs required by the class, so there is really nothing stopping any evil spellcaster from taking it and then wreaking havoc.

That said, "overpowered," as I have pointed out in other threads, is largely a question of which module one is playing.  I would never be a demilich in a module the character could then just slash through with no challenge, but in a module with brutal scaling, like Endless Nights 4, I have played a demilich without feeling that choice made the module too easy.  The mobs get huge in the latter portion of the module, and even the best wail of the banshee won't kill everyone.  Strong enough opponents, such as giants, can do some damage against the template demilich, as can opponents armed with weapons that do divine, magical, or positive energy damage.  Also, the fact that the PRC hasn't quite worked out a way for demiliches to heal themselves with harm, it is hard for a demilich to heal damage in the way normal characters do.  Healing kits still work, though they shouldn't under PNP, but they don't heal as much damage as a regular character could heal with a heal potion or spell.  As a result of this problem, the demilich isn't as overpowered as it might at first appear.  Hypothetically, someone with immunity to death magic and a really good weapon could bring a demilich down.  Five such opponents would definitely prevail.
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: DM Heatstroke on January 20, 2012, 06:18:00 AM
Also, the fact that the PRC hasn't quite worked out a way for demiliches to heal themselves with harm, it is hard for a demilich to heal damage in the way normal characters do.

The Harm Self (Undead) ability doesn't work for PCs?
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: Calirion on January 21, 2012, 03:05:06 PM
Unless I am just being a moron and don't know how to use it, no it doesn't.  I tried with the harm spell like ability that the demilich gets and with the regular harm spell, and I can never target myself.  Negative energy bursts do heal me if I happen to be in the area of  effect.
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: DM Heatstroke on January 22, 2012, 12:24:58 AM
Unless I am just being a moron and don't know how to use it, no it doesn't.  I tried with the harm spell like ability that the demilich gets and with the regular harm spell, and I can never target myself.  Negative energy bursts do heal me if I happen to be in the area of  effect.

I wonder if it's target is set wrong in spells.2da?
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: Siradein on January 27, 2012, 04:00:42 PM
Did you check to make sure Full PvP is turned on?  All my demiliches are capable of healing themselves with Harm (or any other targeted neg spell).
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: Calirion on January 28, 2012, 12:18:28 PM
Did you check to make sure Full PvP is turned on?  All my demiliches are capable of healing themselves with Harm (or any other targeted neg spell).

It sounds as if that is the issue.  Actually, I'm sure full PVP is not turned on, but in the modules I typically play, it is far too easy to accidentally injure some bystander with a spell and end up having faction problems.  However, since negative energy is not harmful to demiliches, in theory one shouldn't have to have full PVP turned on to use spells like harm on oneself.

xwarren, since not every module works equally well under full PVP setting, would it be possible to code a new spell (Harm to Oneself) that heals undead but is not interpreted by the game engine as an attack?  That seems like a better solution if it is not too much trouble.
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: marohair39 on January 28, 2012, 12:31:04 PM
Just my 2 cents, but wouldn't chnaging the difficulty, each time you want to heal, then change it back to normal, do the trick ?! i mean, you don't need to keep hard core difficulty the whole time, just  put it up when you want to heal.
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: DM Heatstroke on January 28, 2012, 12:40:17 PM
Just my 2 cents, but wouldn't chnaging the difficulty, each time you want to heal, then change it back to normal, do the trick ?! i mean, you don't need to keep hard core difficulty the whole time, just  put it up when you want to heal.

That would be a lot easier than adding a new spell to the game.
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: Siradein on January 31, 2012, 01:07:01 PM
I always play with full PvP on anyway, just because I like killing bystanders }:)
Title: Re: What is the difference between Lich template and Lich class?
Post by: Calirion on January 31, 2012, 08:12:07 PM
Just my 2 cents, but wouldn't chnaging the difficulty, each time you want to heal, then change it back to normal, do the trick ?! i mean, you don't need to keep hard core difficulty the whole time, just  put it up when you want to heal.

Well, yes, that would be a good suggestion.  Thanks!