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Neverwinter Nights => Prestige Classes => Topic started by: Necro on July 31, 2010, 01:30:23 AM
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Does the True Necromancer spell progression work for the Dread Necromancer?
I see the Dread Necromancer does work as an arcane class to activate the True Necro, I just wanted to confirm that the spell progression and Necromatic spell boost work properly.
Also, do the class levels for the cleric, dread necro, and true necro all add up for the turn/rebuke undead ability?
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Does the True Necromancer spell progression work for the Dread Necromancer?
Yes
Also, do the class levels for the cleric, dread necro, and true necro all add up for the turn/rebuke undead ability?
Yes
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Thanks!!
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Just don't expect to continue spell progression as a cleric, somehow the TN missed out on the upgrade that allows dual progress (like the Mystic Theurge, Eldritch Disciple, and Eldritch Theurge got). Sad face :(
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;D
Just wait for next release ;)
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Wait True Necro gets dual progression now? Sweet I love it. Is there any difference then between how a True Necro gains or casts spells compared to a Mystic Theurge?
Edit: Rephrased my question to be more clear about what I meant.
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Yes. The progression is the same as Mystic Theurge's - +1 to arcane and divine class per level. It should probably end at 14th level, but I've added epic levels as well (it's easy to disable but I wanted to see how this will work).
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Just want to add that the in-game description is no longer quite accurate (not a complaint, just a heads-up). Anyone wanting to test run this class needs to take spell focus (necromancy), as per Libris Mortis rules. Other than that, looks great, feels right! Personally, I'd leave it with the epic levels intact.
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o.O
This is the current description:
(PRESTIGE CLASS)
Power corrupts. Power over life and death corrupts absolutely. The power to raise the undying servant from the husk of the formerly living is darkly tempting - and certainly evil. Those who seek such unyielding obedience from the dead willingly tread the path of necromancy.
- Hit Dice: d6.
- Proficiencies: True Necromancers gain no weapon, armor or shield proficiencies.
- Skill Points: 2 + Int Modifier.
REQUIREMENTS:
Alignment: Non Good
Skills: Lore 8 ranks
Feats: Death Domain, Turn Undead, Spell Focus (Necromancy).
Spells: Must be able to cast at least 2nd level Arcane spells, and 2nd level Divine spells.
ABILITIES:
Level
1: Rebuke Undead
2: Create Undead 1/day
3: Necromantic Prowess (+1)
4: Zone of Desecration
5: Create Undead 2/day
6: Necromantic Prowess (+2)
7: Major Desecration
8: Create Greater Undead 1/day
9: Necromantic Prowess (+3)
10: Horrid Wilting
11: Create Greater Undead 2/day
12: Necromantic Prowess (+4)
13: Energy Drain
14: Wail Of The Banshee
BONUS SPELLS:
A true necromancer gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in either an arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class, a divine spellcasting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class, or both. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (metamagic or item creation feats and so on).
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Strange, mine still has the old description, and I still had to have access to 3rd level spells of both classes to take a level in TN. Did I do something wrong, miss a file somewhere?
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Do you use PRC/CEP merge or something?
I'll check the description on my PC.
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I use all of the merges because I play various mods that use CEP and/or Q content. I just redownloaded both the exe and rar versions and I'll uninstall and reinstall a little later on, when I have time.
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Description works for me. I do not use a merge.
Pleas keep the epic levels :)
Not sure if it is balanced but it is fun.
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Sadly some builds wont work because of the NWN bug :(
Cleric/Dread Necro/True Necro will not advance clerics spellcasting unless cleric level > dread necro level.
No idea how to fix this - my last attempt broke epic spellcasting for PRC classes :/
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I found out what my problem was, I just needed to reinstall the PRC in my mods and everything works correctly. Oddly enough, for me, Clerice/DN/TN worked just fine, and I only advanced cleric to 5 (DN went to 8).
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Yes, but epic spellcasting doesn't work for PRC classes. In order to fix epic spellcasting I have to revert changes I made to classes.2da file - this will break clerics spellcasting in that build.
I don't know how to fix this. Tested several versions of classes.2da, but it all have the same result - working epic spellcasting OR double progression with new classes. :'(
Right now I see two (not really great) options:
- move epic spells to class radial menu
- add new spellbooks for standard bioware classes
::)
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Ah, I see what you mean. But how then did dual class progression work for the mystic theurge without breaking prc epic spellcasting?
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Dual progression doesn't break epic spellcasting. I tried to fix a bug but unintentionally I broke spellcasting menu.
The bug only occurs when you mix bioware divine class (cleric, druid, paladin, ranger) and PRC arcane class with class that gives +1 CL to divine spells.
Most Mystic Theurge builds I've seen had only bioware classes (wizard/cleric, wizard/druid) or wizard/prc divine class. Those work.
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Sadly some builds wont work because of the NWN bug :(
Cleric/Dread Necro/True Necro will not advance clerics spellcasting unless cleric level > dread necro level.
No idea how to fix this - my last attempt broke epic spellcasting for PRC classes :/
This suggestion might be worthless--I don't know enough about NWN coding to have any idea, but I figured there was no harm in offering it for whatever it may be worth.
As I understand the situation, the problem is that NWN by default recognizes any PRC spellcasting class as a divine class. Faced with what it thinks of as two divine classes, it only advances the one with the most levels. Is that because inherently a class that advances divine spellcasting in two classes is impossible, or that the True Necro coding calls for advance in only one divine class? If it is the latter, then could the TN be coded so that it advances any two spellcasting classes a player has, rather than the current one arcane and one divine formula? As a practical matter, the entry requirements would keep players from qualifying with two divine classes or two arcane classes, but players using a PRC arcane class and a divine class (both of which NWN would see as divine) could advance both of them.
Is this suggestion inspired, or is it just crazy?
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Unfortunately your first guess was correct - it's not possible to advance two (BioWare) divine classes. It is only possible with PRC classes because they use scripted spellbooks. That's why the bug only occurs when you mix BioWare and PRC class with True Necro. :(
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Ah, well. I figured if the solution were that simple, you would have already implemented it.
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The challenge with True Necro now is finding a build that really works without creating major stat problems if one really wants dual progression.
The class already needs charisma to some extent for the turn undead feature to work well, so it would be nice if that could be the spellcasting stat. Sorcerer/favored soul? Favored Souls don't get domains, so they can't qualify.
Well, how about using intelligence as the casting stat? Wizard/Archivist? Archivists don't get domains or turn undead, so that won't work. (It would make a nice mystic theurge build, though.)
Wisdom? Well, that would be witch/cleric, which won't work because of the bioware problem.
Correct me if I am wrong, but there aren't any divine casters in the PRC who have the feats to qualify for True Necro and who use anything other than wisdom as a casting stat.
All of this makes me think that the True Necro works best in a module with epic level possibilities. Having to use two different casting stats makes it difficult to get both high enough to allow both caster classes to have access to 9th level spells, unless one plays an uber race--and if one wants eventually to go for the lich template, the uber race route is out.
All of that said, I guess dual cater prestige classes always have the problem in PNP of being behind their straight caster counterpaprs until some time in epic levels, so this problem is hardly unique.
Right now I'm playing a wizard/cleric/true necro to see how soon I can get int and wis to 19 without having to gimp all my other stats. I'll let you know how it works out...
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The challenge with True Necro now is finding a build that really works without creating major stat problems if one really wants dual progression.
The class already needs charisma to some extent for the turn undead feature to work well, so it would be nice if that could be the spellcasting stat. Sorcerer/favored soul? Favored Souls don't get domains, so they can't qualify.
Well, how about using intelligence as the casting stat? Wizard/Archivist? Archivists don't get domains or turn undead, so that won't work. (It would make a nice mystic theurge build, though.)
Wisdom? Well, that would be witch/cleric, which won't work because of the bioware problem.
Correct me if I am wrong, but there aren't any divine casters in the PRC who have the feats to qualify for True Necro and who use anything other than wisdom as a casting stat.
All of this makes me think that the True Necro works best in a module with epic level possibilities. Having to use two different casting stats makes it difficult to get both high enough to allow both caster classes to have access to 9th level spells, unless one plays an uber race--and if one wants eventually to go for the lich template, the uber race route is out.
All of that said, I guess dual cater prestige classes always have the problem in PNP of being behind their straight caster counterpaprs until some time in epic levels, so this problem is hardly unique.
Right now I'm playing a wizard/cleric/true necro to see how soon I can get int and wis to 19 without having to gimp all my other stats. I'll let you know how it works out...
How about Templar? It gets domains, turn undead at level 4, and uses Charisma.
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Yes, I hadn't even thought of Templar, but since it is charisma based, it would be a nice match with sorcerer in a true necro build.
There are, however, some drawbacks to this arrangement:
First, it delays by two levels entry into true necro (between the one level longer the sorcerer takes to get to 2nd level spells and the 4th level acquisition of turning by the templar). That probably doesn't matter much in the long run, but in the short run that means two levels longer to get to 9th level spells, which might be significant in some modules. (In a wizard/cleric combo in which tn requires knowledge of 2nd level spells, a character would have to wait three levels longer than a regular caster for 9th level spells; this build requires a wait of five levels on the arcane side--sorcerer would get their one level later anyway, and one more base cleric level is added.)
Second, templar domain spells get cast like bonus domain spells, not like regular domain spells (in NWN/PRC terms; I understand in PNP there is no difference). That's a nuisance, but certainly not the end of the world.
Third, and most important, the templar spell list is far more limited than that of a regular cleric. Aggressive standbys like flame strike and storm of vengeance just aren't there; nor are healing standbys like mass heal--or even regular heal--and resurrection. Templars do have some advantages: two martial weapons proficiencies, better skill points than a cleric, better variety of class skills than a cleric. None of those seem like good trade-offs for a caster build, where the cleric's more extensive and powerful selection seems like a much better deal. If you think about it, the much reduced spell list reduces the importance of dual progression. Dual progression gives some substantial disadvantages at early and middle levels, in exchange for full proficiency with two spell books at epic levels. A templar build wouldn't entirely eliminate this advantage, but it would certainly reduce its impact. In a high gold module, it might almost be better to play with a cleric that doesn't progress past the tn entry point or that doesn't learn new spells after a certain point because wisdom isn't high enough but can at least cast the full range of cleric spells from scrolls. A templar can't cast storm of vengeance, for example, at all, and I would take even the low level scroll version over a 40th level power word: blind any day.
Right now I'm playing a wizard/cleric/true necro. If one can survive the early stages, taking lich (level 14) and then demilich (level 24) gives stat boosts that compensate (at least in terms of spell power) for the fact that I have to divide my stat increases between intelligence and wisdom. I chose to get intelligence up first; natural wisdom won't hit 19 until about level 30, which means my cleric is still casting the really high level spells from scrolls, but I would rather be able to resurrect a henchman right away, scroll or not, than have to wait for the next visit to civilization to do it.
In the build you are suggesting, natural charisma would end up being much higher, so that might be a great choice in a mod in which social skills are important, especially since the templar has all three social skills as class skills. For mashing up enemies in combat, though, the wizard/cleric blend looks better--if you live long enough to fully develop it.
(Inadvertently I'm turning this discussion into something that should really have been in the character build thread--my bad!)