Suggestions to balance a high magic world using PRC

[clansunstar]

I wanted to ask the community for their tips, opinions,
advice, and suggestions for balancing a high magic world. I do not want to nerf
anything per say, as I would rather alter things so they balance better. One example
is I plan to set true seeing so it does not see people hiding automatically. It
would instead set a spot bonus. I am using the PRC and CEP both current versions.  I wanted to leave all classes and prestige
classes intact from the PRC if possible. I do plan to use a number of the
switches in the PRC to set things to my likening. If anyone could please offer
any advice, it would be greatly welcomed.

[clansunstar]

Recently on the BSN I posted a reply to someone looking to start a new foundation for NWN. Naturally i suggested the PRC  as one of the haks that should be included. Understandably the People behind foundation were not willing to use PRC as they would need to focus everything else around it. during the discussion it was brought up about why the PRC  is unbalanced. Here is the direct quote.

"PRC became too large, too overhooked with various workaround to make things work and last time I tried it was totally bugged. But NWNX might changed this its some time I playing with it so it my info might be outdated.

At any way, the latest PRC contains so many spellsword classes that there is absolutely no point of playing a regular sword class if a five base classes gives you the same + spells. Those imbalanced dragon-related classes and psionic are also off. But there is inside a lot of incredible stuff and I always liked many classes and spells and overally the new possibilities, I always liked the PRC and have nothing against them - just its not really workable for a PW. I have taken some of the best classes out and rescripted them from scratch using a new "technologies". If this project would want something like a PRClite Im offering my help with creating this. I think that Archmage become much of the standard smilie really."

I wanted to ask a couple of questions.

1.) Are any of the spellsword like classes unbalanced? I can understand for RP reasons someone choosing to play a fighter over a spellsword.

2.) Why is it believed that the Dragon classes are unbalanced? After reviewing the two base classes and four prestige classes i could not find anything that i think was unbalanced.

3.) Are the Psionics unbalanced when compared to magic?

4.) When designing a PW is the PRC truly unusable? Personally I feel if you build your PW around the PRC things could be balanced out.

5.) Are there any classes other than the mentioned ones that may be considered unbalanced?

[ThE LoSt BoY]

1) By spellsword, I think you mean full BAB and full spell progression. At the 3.3 release, I broke down the Prestige + Base class casters listed in the manual and created a database. Also included races as well. Note that Warlocks have been added since. That database is downloadable here (at the bottom): http://prc.athasreborn.com/index.php?topic=237.0

2) PRC Dragon based classes are not especially unbalanced.The breath weps are weak, take a while to re-charge, and are almost all Flex saves and Imp Evasion is a common feat, esp in high magic worlds. In the old days, there were a couple of monk-dragon builds that terrorized the PvP world.

Dragon-kin: http://nwnecbguild.44.forumer.com/dragon-kin-wizard-23-druid-15-monk-2-t515464.html

Dragon Savant: http://nwnecbguild.44.forumer.com/dragon-savant-druid-14-monk-12-dwarven-defender-14-t515476.html

For ref: uber non-PRC builds were pretty wicked in their own right:
http://nwnecbguild.44.forumer.com/bioware-legacy-builds-f60574.html


In order to get Dragon shape now, you need L18 Druid. Here are my dragon builds: http://prc.athasreborn.com/index.php?topic=442.0

You can download the zip files and test out any and all of my builds. Note that there was a feat that was supposed to allow casting in Dragon form (Natural Spell, IIRC), but was not working at the time (pre-3.5). If you are running restricted races, the Dragon builds can give you some pop. If you can’t cast in Dragon form, maybe take a pass. The Dragon appeal or uber-ism depends on the race restrictions you use.


3) Psi-builds can get uber AC’s and deal huge damage. However, the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long. The psi-classes pay power points proportional to damage, whereas magic damage typically scales with caster level (Max IGMS comes to mind). In extended battles between rest, psi-builds have to marshal power points carefully (Ecto-Shambler and Energy Current, etc.). Also, the bonus pp map didn’t seem to work as it should. Also, there is a BS mechanic called psi-focus (bogus?) that wastes a handful of feats. Just as in the arcane world, a lot of powers allow opponents spell / power resistance and / or Flex save. Psi is uber for a short time, then somewhat vulnerable. Note that with the psi-builds, the powers I selected have shifted with PRC release, so they most likely will be unusable.
My Psi-builds are here:
Wilder: http://prc.athasreborn.com/index.php?topic=953.0

Psion: http://prc.athasreborn.com/index.php?topic=12.0

Psy-War: http://prc.athasreborn.com/index.php?topic=44.0


4) No experience with PW. Conventional wisdom suggests that if you install PRC, but restrict the uber-stuff, you’ll have something pretty cool. The non-PRC uber builds are pretty wicked even by PRC standards.

5) Yes. Dual-progression classes that give +1 caster (divine) / + 1 caster (arcane) per level or +1 caster / +1 manifester or + 1 caster / +1 invoker (warlock). Those are listed in the Caster class database, except for the Invokers [Eldritch Disciple, Eldritch Theurge] which had not been added yet. The Lich class has the best defenses in the game. There are also templates (lich, demi-lich, vamp, etc.) that give significant bonuses. Uber-caster classes such as Red Wiz of Thay (arcane) and Runecaster (divine) give very large caster + DC bonuses that make the Archmage and Hierophant look tame by comparison. Uber-races can also do a number on balance. Most of my builds are uber-races, so you can download and see what you think.

Hope it helps and have fun testing.

[Cainen]

1.) Are any of the spellsword like classes unbalanced? I can understand for RP reasons someone choosing to play a fighter over a spellsword.

Jade Phoenix Mage, but it's unbalanced because you can actually get ahead of your HD limit when it comes to caster level, which enables a lot of shenanigans if you're taking lower levels into account(as you should on a PW).  It's also full spell progression, which the tabletop JPM isn't.  A lot of gish PrCs are trash if you're looking for raw power, so this isn't a real issue.

2.) Why is it believed that the Dragon classes are unbalanced? After reviewing the two base classes and four prestige classes i could not find anything that i think was unbalanced.

I have no idea, honestly.  DFA scales terribly due to no epic feat support for it, although it's stronger than the Warlock until 20.  The dragon-based PRCs aren't particularly out there.

3.) Are the Psionics unbalanced when compared to magic?

No.  Magic actually has a lot of crazy options in the PRC.  Now, if immunities are all over the place, Psions will do a little better because they're better blasters, but without those in place, SoL spamming Red Wizards/Runecasters are much, much more powerful.

Now if you were comparing the PsyWar to the Fighter, that's a VERY different story, but that's more because the Fighter is an unimpressive class on its best day.  PsyWar gets as many feats and better things to use them on PLUS powers.  The lower BAB is painful by high levels, but you can make up for that with careful PrCing and your basic accuracy and damage boosts trump the Fighter's pitiful +2/+4 by Epic.

5.) Are there any classes other than the mentioned ones that may be considered unbalanced?

Sacred Fist with certain Cleric domains is really, really strong compared to either class normally.  Monk clearly wasn't built for full BAB + an enhancement bonus of +5 to everything that stacks with gloves + 3d8 claws that are on fire, and that's pretty much exactly what Sacred Fist is when buffed.  Cleric itself is stronger than normal due to it having great PrC support.

[clansunstar]

Thank you both for the replies. I have been told the Lich is a bit overpowered. I was also told the werewolf class or feet's are a bit overpowered. I don't intend on having immunities only resistances, if an immunity is used it will be found one one item with only one immunity on it.

I shall take the advice you both have given me and use it to help try and balance out things.

Thank you for the database Lost Boy, it was very useful.