Spells comparison

[william_iii]

This is a very general question. Compare these 4 spell systems: Arcane, Divine, Psionics & Truenaming, which caster is more powerful?

I've checked the spell list of Psionic & Truenaming, and I don't think they're as strong as Arcane & Divine. But surely I didn't notice some important things. So could someone please help me to do some analysis?

Thanx!

[ThE LoSt BoY]

[william_iii]

Er... thanks very much for the particular analysis. But to tell you the truth, I just began to notice the Psionic system, and I even don't understand some rules... so let me ask some basic questions:

1 How to calculate DC of a psionic power? Is it the same with Arcane/Divine spells which is 10+Abillity mod+Level of spell?

2 It seems there's cap on how many PPs can be put on one spell, otherwise one can cast 100+ PPs on one spell... but what's the cap? Casterlever? And do those PPs of metapower included?

3 I don't think all the powers are useful... since a wilder can take only 11 spells, could you give me some advice on which to choose?

PS: I think the damage of psionic spells are almost the same: 1d6 per PP cost...

[heimdallw32]

1.: Yes, same as arcane/divine. 10+ability mod+level of power.

2.: Yes, there's a cap, equal to your level. This includes all metapsionics and augmentation. The Overchannel feat lets you bypass this to some degree. So if you're a level 15 Psion, you cannot spend more than 15 power points on a single power.

3 is stepping into the bounds of opinion, and I don't have much experience with psionics personally, so I'll stay out of that discussion.

[ThE LoSt BoY]

Why not try the builds yourself?

1) Download the zipped files & use unzip. 2) Put the .bic file into your local vault. 3) Fire up NWN and hit "new." 4) Select the CM, PT, MT, Lich, Runecaster, etc. posted builds and try out.

Grab the latest CM builds here http://www.nwnprc.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=50

You can cross-reference the Wilder powers I listed v. the explanations in the PRC Manual: http://www.nwnprc.com//nwn/index.html, just click the psi-powers.

The Wisecat PT build is here: http://www.nwnprc.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=44

Psion & Warhead builds are here: http://www.nwnprc.com/forum/viewthread.php?thread_id=12

I recommend starting with the Warhead build. Devi-Crit, 7 attack / round, TW-Rend,  Energy Current, Ecto-Shambler, Creep Doom, Crystal Shard, Hammer, Energy Missile, Precogs, Presci + more.

Remember to d-load the latest versions that have Prac Manifester.

To answer at least one Q, most damage based psi-powers have DC's that scale with the augmentation; almost all are 1 DC / 2 pp. The scaling is listed in the power text. Note that Energy Missile DC is not a misprint.

[heimdallw32]

Just wanted to correct this part so people don't get the wrong idea. Concentration checks for psionics are only made when A: attempting to manifest a power when in melee range of foes (just like arcane or divine spellcasting, i.e. attack of oppertunity), B: taking damage while manifesting, and C: attempting to gain your Psionic Focus.

You can still manifest powers just fine without your psionic focus. You just are required to expend it to use metapsionics and certain other psionic feats.

[ThE LoSt BoY]

not correct - my mistake :@. Meta-psi's & stuff like Deep Impact require Psi-foc, not base manifestation.

Un-augmented damage is typically d6 or 3.5 hp /pp. Twin + Max + Empowered = 2*6*1.5 = 18 hp /pp. 5.1 Augment / non damage ratio.

Hammer goes from 4.5 hp / pp to 2*8*1.5 = 24 hp /pp. 5.3 Augment / non damage ratio.

Mind Thrust goes from 5.5 hp / pp to  2*10*1.5 = 30 hp /pp. 5.45 damage ratio.

W/o meta-psi's, you only do 20% of max damage, so why bother with Psi-builds w/o extra psi-focii?

[william_iii]

Mmm... maybe some mistakes?

The feat Empower & Maximize are calculated seprerately, which means the Empower part won't be maximized.

e.g. Mind Thrust with Empower & Maximize: 10*pp + (1d10)*0.5*pp

And usually Improved Meta will only reduce each meta cost to 1, & won't do anything to those cost 2, unless the switch is turned... so normally Improved Meta III seems a little useless, while IV seems useless totally...

These are both from manual & experimental result:) but psionic is still so powerful~

[ThE LoSt BoY]

You are right, the evidence of nerf-age is here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm [Caution: Common sense is optional]

 "An empowered and maximized power gains the separate benefits of each feat: the maximum result plus one-half the normally rolled result."

WoTC idiocy never ceases to amaze (max [not empower cuz it's done in parallel!] love for monks, nerf everything that can harm monks).

Running parallel mechanics is putrid stack management. Ok, why wouldn't a player fire up the base power THEN Empower it (1 psi-bogus down), THEN Maximize (2 psi-bogus down) THEN Twin (3 psi-boguses). Official confirmation that psionic focus is a failed mechanic.

I'm not a binary hound or I'd  re-code to series. I guess the only way to mitigate is to increase abilities such that you gain the wasted pp.

Does the same logic fail (parallel mechanic with psi-boguses) also apply to Max & Twin? I.e. Is the twinned power random or Max?

A house-rule meta-psi series-parallel switch would be pretty cool . . .(day dream) .. sigh.

On a non-idiot (WotC BS) note, Imp Meta-Psi III (IMP-3) is generally better for lower level Manifesters. Ie. L 20 manif w/o PMan or O-channel, 2 pp is ~ 10% of the meta-psi costs and Imp Meta-Psi III is 1 of 7 epic base feats or 14% of epic feat total. If you have bonus epic feats, it may be worth it. An L40 mani + 4 PM + 3 OC = 47 total, 2 pp is a much smaller % of wasted pp. In short, you have to balance the marginality / limiting returns of IMP-3. IMP1 and 2 are slam dunks for heavy blasters.

Thanks for the reality check. It's a lot worse than I thought.

[william_iii]

A house-rule meta-psi series-parallel switch would be pretty cool . . .(day dream) .. sigh.

If u r talking about using Improved Meta to reduce the extra cost totally instead of separately, there IS a switch in PRC Options...

[ThE LoSt BoY]

I was thinking of meta-psi stack resolution: series (Base power THEN Empower THEN Max THEN Twin) v. parallel (Empowered is not Max-ed, is the Twinned power random or max, etc...).