Issue I'm seeing with PnP Shifter (but may be elsewhere)

[CapnQ]

The effects added by the Shifter (PnP) class to increase/decrease AB, skills, etc. when shifting are being stripped in some way that I haven't been able to figure out. I'm not certain, but I believe some other effects are stripped as well. Here's what I do know:

* I'm pretty sure that they aren't being stripped by the Shifter (PnP) code, unless as an unexpected (to me) side-effect of something else that it's doing.
* It *looks* like it's happening when EvalPRCFeats is called, or perhaps some other function that is normally called at the same time. It doesn't seem to happen every time, but it does happen a large percentage of the time. So, for instance, equipping/unequipping a weapon, which calls EvalPRCFeats, frequently causes these effects to be stripped.

I've managed to work around this for most of the effects by re-adding the effects every time EvalPRCFeats is called, but a) this is a lot of extra work, and b) I can't do it with all of the effects. Specifically, I can't do it with temporary HP and with the "harmlessly invisible" effect that the PnP Shifter class applies for some shapes. This isn't because the effects can't be reapplied, it's because I don't know when they should be--it wouldn't do for the shifter to get free temporary HP and turn invisible every time a weapon is equipped.

I'm pretty sure this is a fairly new issue, since this used to work not that long ago. I haven't verified exact versions, but it probably happened since the 3.3g release, almost certainly after 3.3f.

So, here's my question: xwarren, since you and I made most of the recent changes that I'm aware of, can you think of a change you made or saw someone else (maybe me) make that could do this? Or can anyone suggest something for me to look into, either what might be causing it or a way to prevent it from happening?

Thanks

[xwarren]

If you added them as item properties to creatures hide*, than I'm almost sure it's because of ScrubPCSkin() function. It removes all ips from the skin. This happens on rest, level up and possibly some other events. I thought I have fixed this, but apparently I didn't :/

*SetCompositeBonus() or something

[CapnQ]

If you added them as item properties to creatures hide*, than I'm almost sure it's because of ScrubPCSkin() function. It removes all ips from the skin. This happens on rest, level up and possibly some other events. I thought I have fixed this, but apparently I didn't :/

*SetCompositeBonus() or something

No, these are effects. Everything else is an item property, and those are working fine; I'm aware they are removed by ScrubPCSkin, and I re-add them at the appropriate times. These are effects added with ApplyEffectToObject()--see the file scripts/prc_shfteffap.nss--and I couldn't find anything that would be removing them. I think you did fix the problem you thought you did and this is a different one. I was hoping you might have some suggestions.

As far as the SetCombositeBonus() note: these effects are not using that. Perhaps some of them should be, but the ones I'm actually having problems with, that wouldn't help.

[Raconteur02]

I don't know if this is related to what you guys are discussing, but another problem that I'm seeing with PnP Shifter is that elemental immunities and resistances aren't being dropped from your character traits when you shift back to your normal form or into another form.

So, for example, if I shift into a Mummy Lord I get a 50% immunity to electricity damage. Once I shift back into a mind flayer (my original race), I keep that 50% electricity immunity, and continue to keep it despite whatever other forms I shift into.

I removed a few of the prerequisites from the .2da for this class because the three class limit was messing up where I wanted to go with it, so maybe that has something to do with it, but I don't think so. Also, this is occurring in the single-player campaign for HotU.

(Edit: Didn't see the date. This is a bit of a necro post, here.)

[CapnQ]

I don't know if this is related to what you guys are discussing, but another problem that I'm seeing with PnP Shifter is that elemental immunities and resistances aren't being dropped from your character traits when you shift back to your normal form or into another form.

So, for example, if I shift into a Mummy Lord I get a 50% immunity to electricity damage. Once I shift back into a mind flayer (my original race), I keep that 50% electricity immunity, and continue to keep it despite whatever other forms I shift into.

I removed a few of the prerequisites from the .2da for this class because the three class limit was messing up where I wanted to go with it, so maybe that has something to do with it, but I don't think so. Also, this is occurring in the single-player campaign for HotU.

(Edit: Didn't see the date. This is a bit of a necro post, here.)

It is an old discussion, but I only just found and fixed the issue we were discussing (the fix will be in the 3.4 release).

I thought I saw the problem you're describing on a few occasions a long time ago, but on closer investigation I was never able to find the item property that was giving the extra immunity, so I was never able to try to fix it. I only saw it a couple of times, I believe in HOTU as well. Are you seeing it a lot? ARe you sure the unexpected immunity isn't being given by something you're wearing? I haven't seen the problem in a good while, so maybe some of my other changes have fixed it. What PRC version are you using?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "the three class limit was messing up where I wanted to go with it". My first thought is that you changed it so you could cross-class into more than 3 classes, but I don't think that's possible, is it? My next thought is that you meant the prerequisites for PnP Shifter required you to take one of 3 classes, but that's not really true either. So I'm not sure what you mean.

[Mindflayer]

I had the same problem with elemental immunities when I last played a shifter with 3.3h. Also, the "sweeping strike" feat of the warmind prestige class didn't work with the natural attacks of my shapes/unarmed attacks even though the feat description doesn't mention that you need to hold weapons, is it possible to fix that?

[Raconteur02]

I thought I saw the problem you're describing on a few occasions a long time ago, but on closer investigation I was never able to find the item property that was giving the extra immunity, so I was never able to try to fix it. I only saw it a couple of times, I believe in HOTU as well. Are you seeing it a lot? ARe you sure the unexpected immunity isn't being given by something you're wearing? I haven't seen the problem in a good while, so maybe some of my other changes have fixed it. What PRC version are you using?

I'm using the 3.4 beta. I've reproduced the issue with two different characters now, using two different forms that have elemental resistances/immunities. It should be relatively easy for me to send you a savegame, if that helps. It definitely isn't any equipment that I'm wearing because I'm at the very beginning, and therefore have no equipment that provides resistance to elements, much less immunity.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "the three class limit was messing up where I wanted to go with it". My first thought is that you changed it so you could cross-class into more than 3 classes, but I don't think that's possible, is it? My next thought is that you meant the prerequisites for PnP Shifter required you to take one of 3 classes, but that's not really true either. So I'm not sure what you mean.

I removed all the prerequisites for PnP Shifter except for the feats so I wouldn't need level 3 spellcasting, and therefore could do a Monk/Shifter/Initiate of Draconic Mysteries. I mention that in case doing this would bug out the class somehow, but I don't think it would, and I've had the same thing happen with a stock shifter.

I can see if I can recreate it with an unaltered .2da, but like I said, I don't see how altering the prerequisites would cause this, although I could certainly be wrong.

[CapnQ]

I thought I saw the problem you're describing on a few occasions a long time ago, but on closer investigation I was never able to find the item property that was giving the extra immunity, so I was never able to try to fix it. I only saw it a couple of times, I believe in HOTU as well. Are you seeing it a lot? ARe you sure the unexpected immunity isn't being given by something you're wearing? I haven't seen the problem in a good while, so maybe some of my other changes have fixed it. What PRC version are you using?

I'm using the 3.4 beta. I've reproduced the issue with two different characters now, using two different forms that have elemental resistances/immunities. It should be relatively easy for me to send you a savegame, if that helps. It definitely isn't any equipment that I'm wearing because I'm at the very beginning, and therefore have no equipment that provides resistance to elements, much less immunity.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "the three class limit was messing up where I wanted to go with it". My first thought is that you changed it so you could cross-class into more than 3 classes, but I don't think that's possible, is it? My next thought is that you meant the prerequisites for PnP Shifter required you to take one of 3 classes, but that's not really true either. So I'm not sure what you mean.

I removed all the prerequisites for PnP Shifter except for the feats so I wouldn't need level 3 spellcasting, and therefore could do a Monk/Shifter/Initiate of Draconic Mysteries. I mention that in case doing this would bug out the class somehow, but I don't think it would, and I've had the same thing happen with a stock shifter.

I can see if I can recreate it with an unaltered .2da, but like I said, I don't see how altering the prerequisites would cause this, although I could certainly be wrong.

I agree that the changed prereqs probably aren't the problem. A saved game could be helpful, and a specific list of the immunities you have and should't along with it.

[Raconteur02]

I agree that the changed prereqs probably aren't the problem. A saved game could be helpful, and a specific list of the immunities you have and should't along with it.

Here you go: http://rapidshare.com/files/431322004/000036_-_electricalimmunity.rar

To recreate the issue from that savegame, shift into a Bebilith. It's in the first quickchange slot on the toolbar. Then shift back into normal form. The electrical immunity should remain on the character sheet, presuming it isn't just some weird fluke that only I'm having.

The AC will also remain really high from the bebelith bonuses. That can be fixed by shifting into a bugbear (Quickchange slot 2 on the toolbar) and back into normal form, but the electrical immunity remains regardless.

[CapnQ]

I agree that the changed prereqs probably aren't the problem. A saved game could be helpful, and a specific list of the immunities you have and should't along with it.

Here you go: http://rapidshare.com/files/431322004/000036_-_electricalimmunity.rar

To recreate the issue from that savegame, shift into a Bebilith. It's in the first quickchange slot on the toolbar. Then shift back into normal form. The electrical immunity should remain on the character sheet, presuming it isn't just some weird fluke that only I'm having.

The AC will also remain really high from the bebelith bonuses. That can be fixed by shifting into a bugbear (Quickchange slot 2 on the toolbar) and back into normal form, but the electrical immunity remains regardless.

I've looked at this, and at least in this particular case it appears to be a case of the character sheet giving incorrect information. I see the electrical immunity in the character sheet as you say, but it's not really there. If you want to see exactly what effects you actually have and where they're coming from, try entering the following debug commands (if you don't know how to enter debug commands, you can find info about it on the web or ask and I'll give more details):

DebugMode 1
runscript prc_shifter_debug

[Raconteur02]

I've looked at this, and at least in this particular case it appears to be a case of the character sheet giving incorrect information. I see the electrical immunity in the character sheet as you say, but it's not really there. If you want to see exactly what effects you actually have and where they're coming from, try entering the following debug commands (if you don't know how to enter debug commands, you can find info about it on the web or ask and I'll give more details):

DebugMode 1
runscript prc_shifter_debug

Ah - thank you! I had considered that possibility, and could have sworn that I was experiencing the actual reduction. I'll test that (there's an easy lightning trap I can do it with early in HotU) and if I can get the immunity to apply out of form I'll upload a savegame at that spot.

Thanks again!

[CapnQ]

I've looked at this, and at least in this particular case it appears to be a case of the character sheet giving incorrect information. I see the electrical immunity in the character sheet as you say, but it's not really there. If you want to see exactly what effects you actually have and where they're coming from, try entering the following debug commands (if you don't know how to enter debug commands, you can find info about it on the web or ask and I'll give more details):

DebugMode 1
runscript prc_shifter_debug

Ah - thank you! I had considered that possibility, and could have sworn that I was experiencing the actual reduction. I'll test that (there's an easy lightning trap I can do it with early in HotU) and if I can get the immunity to apply out of form I'll upload a savegame at that spot.

Thanks again!

It's not impossible the immunity will be there--as I said, I'm pretty sure I've seen "phantom immunities" before--and if it is, I'm not sure what I would do about it since the item property that should be providing the immunity has been removed. Still, a save game will be helpful if you do see the problem.

[CapnQ]

Never mind about sending me a new savegame. I've reproduced the problem in another game and discovered that the immunity is actually still in effect. As best I can tell, it's a Bioware bug where, under circumstances that I don't understand yet, the immunity remains even after the item property that provides the immunity has been removed. I have a possible workaround that I'm testing.