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Author Topic: Spell *miss* 70%+ of the time. Bug?  (Read 6559 times)

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February 11, 2015, 03:13:46 PM

 Hi, sorry if this sounds like a noob question, but I'm starting to wonder if I have a bug of some sort in relation with the PRC 3.5. I have the Official Patch 1.69, and the Community Patch 1.70. I installed everything in what should be the proper order, finishing with the PRC. I play a Sorceress and am starting to get really annoyed by what is spells missing their targets most of the time. The only spell I have right now that always hits the target is Magic Missile. If I cast Flame Arrow, Melf's Acid Arrow, Ray of Frost, Scorching Rays, Acid Splash, etc., there's a roll dice that makes me *miss* the targets like 70%+ of the time, it is really annoying. What is this roll dice associated to? Dexterity? I have low dexterity, like 10 or 12, and I have like 19 Charisma for what should be the modifier for Sorcerer's Spells. It's been a long time since I played NWN Vanilla, but I don't remember having this sort of Spell *miss*, at least not THAT often, which is so annoying that I must resign to stop playing for now until I find what's the problem there. It doesn't seem to be associated with Saves either, because some spells are specified as not being affected by any types of Saves, and still miss the targets.

 By the way, I am playing the OC, and also have another problem. I'm wondering if there's some spells I can't use in Non-PRC modules, mainly the Official ones. I chose what is a grayed out icon spell of an eye(Edit: name of the spell is Seething Eyebane). Don't remember the name, but it's basically a spell described as damaging the target for 1d6 of acid and then making the target's eyes bleed out acid (if the NPC have eyes) and damage surrounding enemies. It's specified you got to have an Evil Alignment Character for the spell to work, which I have, but the spell doesn't seem to have any effect on any NPC I tried it on.

Thanks for any help in advance.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2015, 03:24:53 PM by NickEclipse »

February 11, 2015, 07:09:05 PM
Reply #1

Most of the ones you listed were ranged touch (Dex).

Good ref:

L1 Sorc has poor BAB.

Using the console codes, increase your Dex a ton and see what your hit rate is.

The updater should ask which modules you want the PRC upgrades for.
Fermi was a Pyrokineticist

February 12, 2015, 01:31:11 PM
Reply #2

Thanks a lot for taking the time to try to help me, especially considering the forum doesn't seem to have much activity on it. I didn't expect a response that is so fast. I'm still confused about many points though.

"Most of the ones you listed were ranged touch (Dex).

Good ref:"

So the keyword here I guess is "Touch Attack". For example, Magic Missile is Ranged, but not Touch, so Dex doesn't apply. But Acid Arrow, is Ranged Touch, so Dex and Deflection modifiers apply?

What I am wondering is, is it PRC that introduces this mechanic, or is it there by default? I play NWN 2 and I don't really recall missing, let's say, a Ray of Frost attack. Cantrips are weak enough, not to be subjected to having a chance to miss the target. My Sorceress in NWN currently is LVL 7, with Dex 10. With that kind of stat, those Ranged Touch spells miss most of the time. With that in mind, I have a hard time with boss battles, and would be dead most of the time even in normal combat if it weren't of my henchman, the summoned creature, and the familiar to help me.

I just opened my game and what is on the spell index you gave me is at least specified in the descriptions of the spells in-game. Before, I checked for a nuances between say, Magic Missile and Flame Arrow to see why one would hit 100% and the other barely 20-30% of the time, but would only check the specifications, not the description. So at least I can base myself on that for the future, and I also now know by your confirmation that a Dex and Deflection modifier is being applied to some of my spells. (Cantrips like Ray of Frost don't specify it's Ranged Touch thought, I mean, in-game, but your chart specify they are.)

I'm still puzzled on what to do with my Sorceress thought. Most of my spells are Ranged Touch. I could use Leto 1.69 to modify my stats and give more points into Dex, but like I said, would I have to do this without PRC? I'm not a D&D guru so I don't know if some spells once were not subjected to Dex/Deflection modifiers, and if new rule sets introduced it. I'll take a pause in NWN and play some more NWN 2 where I play a Wizard, and see if those Ranged Spells *miss* apply in that game. What kind of Dex would you suggest for my Sorceress so she hits most of the time? 14? That would force me to take my Cha from 19 down to 15. My other stats are already low as it is. Having 8 Str, 14 Con (maybe could take 2 points there), 12 Int and 10 Wis.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I have two finals questions

"L1 Sorc has poor BAB."

What do you mean by "L1"(Level 1?) and "BAB"?

"The updater should ask which modules you want the PRC upgrades for."

Yes, and I chose to install it in every module, was it a mistake, isn't it compatible with the Official Modules & Expansions? That was my original question. Also, if I decide to remove it from the Official Modules, will it break my saved game of the Original Campaign, since I played all of it to this point with the PRC?

Hey, I hope you can help me there, and thanks in advance again if you take the time to go through all that text of mine :P.

EDIT: I just fired up NWN 2 and went on to read Melf's Acid Arrow's description. It says pretty much the same thing, "needs a successful ranged attack roll". Thing is, as I said, I can't remember ever missing a target, at least not that much, with those kinds of spell in either NWN 1 Vanilla, or NWN 2 Vanilla before. My Wizard also have a low 10 Dex, so I'll play and pay close attention to if I miss or not targets in that game as I do in NWN with PRC 3.5. But if I do, I'm pretty positive that I don't miss 70%+ of the time, so I'm still puzzled...By the way, I play both games on D&D Hardcore Difficulty.

UPDATE: Okay so I tried NWN 2, there is indeed spell misses on Ranged Spells, but still something doesn't feel right. As I said, way less misses in NWN 2, with the same Dex of 10 for both characters. Here's the 4 last attacks roll logs for NWN 2 on Orcs: Melf's Acid Arrow & Acid Splash used 9+4=13 *Hit* / 7+4=11 *Hit* / 2+4=6 *Miss* / 1+4=5 *Miss*. Here's the 4 last attack rolls in NWN on Skeleton Mages & Shadows: Ray of Frost, Scorching Ray, Melf's Acid Arrow & Flame Arrow used 5+1=6 *Miss* / 14+-1=13 *Miss* / 16+-1=15 *Miss* / 12+-1=11 *Miss*. So yeah, WAY bigger miss ratio in NWN 1, and what strikes me as odd is, the rolls are higher. I suppose the Deflection rating of enemies are to take into account, but it's been that way since the start of the game. Meaning even weak creatures are easy to miss, and bosses are downright impossible to hit. Pisses me off, because I like NWN way more than NWN 2, but the gameplay being that way, it's too much frustration. I'll try to increase the dexterity if you can't explain to me what's going on here, but I don't see the logic of having high Dex for a Spellcaster, especially when my Wizard in NWN 2 is doing just fine with 10 Dex.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 05:32:55 PM by NickEclipse »

February 12, 2015, 05:25:27 PM
Reply #3

PRC pretty much took the PnP (pen-and-paper) implementations as-written. This means, if the source books had it as Ranged Touch, that's how it was coded. Some spells may not have specified. If ambiguous, NWN team had to make a call.

Most people lump ranged touch in with ranged attacks:

L1 is Level 1. BAB is Base Attack Bonus. L1 Sorc BAB = 0. L7 Sorc = 3.

Recommend tilde, DebugMode=1, then ModDEX # & dm_modifyattackbase #

No .bic editing necessary.

If your Sorc hits at a much higher rate, you'll know it was Low BAB & Dex. Take a look at the human Sorc builds to see how they allocated Cha v. Dex.

PRC on modules should not be a mistake. Great modification.
Fermi was a Pyrokineticist

February 12, 2015, 05:45:25 PM
Reply #4

Well, the BAB of the Wizard is pretty much the same, and I'm around the same level in both games. I'll pretty much be forced to increase the Dex of my Sorcerer, but it doesn't please me. Still can't figure out why the ratio of misses of my Sorcerer is way higher, and misses with higher rolls than those of the Wizard. At least you confirmed that PRC is compatible with Official Modules, I thank you for that. If you haven't seen, I've updated my second post with information regarding rolls on both of my characters. Maybe this could explain something is amiss. With the Wizard, with a roll of 11 & 13, I hit. With the Sorceress, with a roll of 11, 13 & 15, I miss on all three occasions. On NPCs that aren't supposed to be that strong.

UPDATE: Just checked out, both characters are exactly LVL 7, and both are on the Original Campaign of their respective games (NWN 1 & NWN 2). I don't see why standard creatures in NWN OC would have a so much higher Deflection rating than those in NWN 2 OC that it would make me miss 70%+ of the time in NWN OC versus 30%- of the time in NWN 2 OC.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 05:59:51 PM by NickEclipse »

February 12, 2015, 08:26:08 PM
Reply #5

Option1: add Dex and / or BAB, test out, then subtract back to base stats.

Option2: start a Dex 10 Wiz in NWN1+PRC, dm_givelevel 6 and test v. same opponents / AC and compare rolls & hits.

Testing NWN1+PRC v. NWN2 not advised.
Fermi was a Pyrokineticist

February 12, 2015, 10:20:50 PM
Reply #6

I modified my Sorceress to have 12 Dex, tested it...Out of 12 Ranged Spells on Skeleton Mages, Shadows and Weak Zombies (in other words, all weak targets), I hit 2 times. That's completely ridiculous and unacceptable. I'm not going to have my Sorc have 18 Dex and lower it's Charisma just so I can play a game where there's obviously a problem. Does it lie in PRC, Community Patch 1.70, or the game itself? I don't know, but it seems like I'll have to take a good amount of time to play-test the game without PRC and CP 1.7.

UPDATE: Just noticed there was a pcr_ocfix package in the PRC Content Installer that I didn't install. I used it on the OC module. Reloaded the game, tested. First time, 7 hits out of 12, second time, 6 hits out of 12. Definitely an amelioration. Is it pure coincidence? I don't know, and at this point I don't really care. Since I played a good portion of that Character without the fix, and that I applied it in the middle of a savegame, I just don't trust things to be as they should. I'll just reinstall NWN Vanilla and stick with it, and ditch that Character.

Thanks again for trying to help out...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 10:46:04 PM by NickEclipse »

February 24, 2015, 06:26:33 PM
Reply #7
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Nick, you may not be back, but if you are...

Yeah, applying the OCfix is necessary to get NWN and PRC to play well together in the OC. You will have problems otherwise.

Also, PRC 3.5 was written before community patch 1.7. I would guess they are not fully compatible. PRC gives you far more than the patch, though.